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freetard
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Mógłbyś rozjaśnić, gdzie ten stolen concept fallacy? Bo sądzę, że wszytko jest logiczne.

buhahah komuch i logika
Wojna to pokój.
Wolność to niewola.
Ignorancja to siła.
Piractwo to kradzież
Kapitalizm to państwo (twoje słowa)

nie gorączkuj się, każdy komuch wypierdala się na tym pytaniu. Dosłownie każdy. Nie jesteś wyjątkiem.

masz nawet na wikipedii:

jak już mówiłem - wyjebałeś się na początku swojego wlasnego rozumowania, zatem reszta jest nieważna i dopóki tego nie naprawisz, temat zamykam.
 
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RedRight

RedRight

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buhahah komuch i logika
Wojna to pokój.
Wolność to niewola.
Ignorancja to siła.
Piractwo to kradzież
Kapitalizm to państwo (twoje słowa)

nie gorączkuj się, każdy komuch wypierdala się na tym pytaniu. Dosłownie każdy. Nie jesteś wyjątkiem.

masz nawet na wikipedii:

Prymitywne orwellowskie gry słowne, rzekomo wyznawane przez socjalistów.

Ironia polega na tym, że to pasuje do liberałów. Wojna z ZSRR rękoma faszystów to pokój(spisek monachijski). Oczywista socjalistyczna wolność(której łaknie lwia część klasy robotniczej) to niewola. Zdaje się, że USA produkuje rzesze ignorantów, którzy maja wielkie mniemanie o swojej sile. Piractwo to po prostu działanie nielegalne. Prawo antypirackie to forma socjalizmu, ponieważ nie wynika ono wprost z własności prywatniej. Państwo rozwiązuje problemy wolnego rynku, chyba chcemy, żeby autorzy byli nagradzani.
Kapitalizm to formacja ekonomiczno-polityczna oparta na wyzysku klasowym, która do istnienia potrzebuje państwowego aparatu przymusu.
 
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tosiabunio

Grand Master Architect
Członek Załogi
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Ponieważ stawiasz fałszywe tezy bez odwołania się do źródeł, zadałem sobie minimalny trud i wygooglowałem coś, co nie jest materiałem z tzw. dupy, który się posługujesz (a w zasadzie zmyślasz).


Quality of Life in the Soviet Union : A Conference Report z roku 1984

Tamże, na stronach 28 i dalej (podkreślenia będą moje):

As the data indicates, the Soviet Union has a long way to go to catch up with Western standards of living. In 1976, the living standard of the Soviet people was roughly one-third that of the United States, somewhat less than half that of France, West Germany and Austria, just over half that of the United Kingdom and Japan, and about two-thirds of the Italian level. These relationships remain essentially the same in the 1980s.

Large deficiencies are found in all major categories of Soviet consumption, except for education. With respect to food, beverages and tobacco, Soviet per capita consumption levels range from between 50 to 70% of the total for Western nations. Moreover, the quality of the Soviet diet is poor by Western standards. In 1976, for example, Soviet consumers obtained 46% of their daily caloric intake from bread and potatoes, and only 8% from meat and fish. The comparable figures for the United States are 22 and 20%, respectively. These statistics do not include expenditures in restaurants and cafes, which would make the Soviet position look somewhat less favorable because relatively fewer people in the Soviet Union frequent such establishments than in the United States.

Soviet per capita expenditures on clothing and footware are also well below Western levels, but the variability between nations is greater than the range for overall standards of living. Per capita consumption of clothing and footware ranges between 46 and 81% of the Western levels. However, both the Soviet press and foreign observers point out that the style, variety, and general appearance of Soviet attire is far inferior to the fashions available in the West. Unfortunately, such considerations cannot be fully captured by quantitative comparisons.

The area where the differences between Soviet and Western living standards is perhaps greatest is in the housing sector. Here, the Soviet Union spends less than one-fifth the total US figure, and well under half of what is spent in Spain and Japan. Housing is probably the greatest consumer frustration in the Soviet Union. Most urban residents pay very low subsidized rents, but live in small, overcrowded, poorly-maintained apartments. For the Soviet Union to appreciably reduce its housing problem, huge sustained increases in investment would be necessary--an occurance which does not seem likely given Soviet investment priorities.

Allocations for transportation and communication services are also very low in the Soviet Union as compared to Western levels. Soviet consumers spend large amounts on public transportation relative to the West and very small amounts on private automobiles. Presently, only about one Soviet family out of twenty owns a car, whereas car ownership is almost universal among American families and is overwhelmingly predominant in Western Europe and Japan. Only one in seven urban families in the Soviet Union has a telephone, and home telephones are exceedingly rare in rural areas. The availability of recreational goods and services is scarce in comparison to the West. According to Soviet data, over nine-tenths of all families now have television sets, with color sets coming into use fairly rapidly.

Soviet consumers also spend relatively much less than their Western couterparts on a variety of miscellaneous goods and services. The largest share of this category consists of expenditures in restaurants and lodging places which are far less common in the Soviet Union than in the West. While restaurant sales make up about one-sixth of total retail sales of food and beverages in the Soviet Union, the share is much larger in Western nations. The Soviet government's long-term neglect of the service sector has produced expenditure lags comparable to those for housing and recreation. The relatively large Western totals for "other expenditures" reflect the fact that a wide variety of financial, legal, and similar services are provided in the Nest, whereas they are extremely rare or non-existent in the Soviet Union.

Health care in the Soviet Union is provided at no direct charge to the individual, but the figures indicate that per capita expenditures on health care are only about one-third of those in the United States, France and West Germany, and about two-fifths the level of the United Kingdom, Austria and Japan. This is partially explained by the fact that the Soviet health care system is labor-intensive and uses fewer expensive materials than in the West. Moreover, Soviet health care personnel are among the lowest paid in the Soviet economy.

In sharp contrast to the poor showing in all areas up to this point, the Soviet Union leads all countries but the United States in per capita expenditures on education. This relects a long-standing commitment to create an educated and skilled labor force with which to fuel a rapidly expanding and modernizing economy. But while general secondary education is now compulsory and nearly universal, access to full-time higher educational facilities is strictly limited to the government's estimated need for trained manpower. Less than one-fifth of all Soviet high school graduates are enrolled in full-time colleges, compared to over two-fifths in the United States. About 10 % of the Soviet labor force is made up of college graduates, whereas the figure is approximately 25% in the United States.

Soviet consumption patterns differ markedly from those in the West . Soviet citizens devote a far larger share of their expenditures to food, clothing, alcoholic beverages and tobacco . With close to two-thirds of all consumption outlays devoted to these items, the Soviet Union displays a consumption pattern more similar to developing nations than industrialized ones. This follows from Engel's Law which holds that proportional outlays for food and clothing, etc ., decline as spendable income rises. As Soviet wages are relatively low compared to those in Western nations, the proportion of income spent on food, etc., is necessarily higher than in the West. In short, not only are relative standards of living far below those of the West, but the pattern of consumption is also quite backward and has changed at a glacial pace compared to the West. As the United States and other Western nations moved towards the creation of service-oriented economies, Soviet expenditures on production comprised almost 80% of all spending in 1976. In the United States, the respective share was 45%.

From 1953 to 1970, per capita, private consumption in the Soviet Union rose nearly twice as fast as in the United States, but since 1970 that growth has slowed markedly. Starting from a much lower base, Soviet efforts to reduce the gap between Eastern and Western standards of living have been mixed. Soviet living standards have indeed increased, but on the whole, the result has not been particularly impressive in comparison to the capitalist nations of Western Europe. Western estimates are virtually unanimous in their forecasts of slow economic growth in the Soviet Union and therefore even slower growth rates in per capita consumption levels.

I pozamiatane.
 

kompowiec

freetard
2 587
2 650
Prymitywne orwellowskie gry słowne, rzekomo wyznawane przez socjalistów.

Ironia polega na tym, że to pasuje do liberałów. Wojna z ZSRR rękoma faszystów to pokój(spisek monachijski). Oczywista socjalistyczna wolność(której łaknie lwia część klasy robotniczej) to niewola. Zdaje się, że USA produkuje rzesze ignorantów, którzy maja wielkie mniemanie o swojej sile. Piractwo to po prostu działanie nielegalne. Prawo antypirackie to forma socjalizmu, ponieważ nie wynika ono wprost z własności prywatniej. Państwo rozwiązuje problemy wolnego rynku, chyba chcemy, żeby autorzy byli nagradzani.
Kapitalizm to formacja ekonomiczno-polityczna oparta na wyzysku klasowym, która do istnienia potrzebuje państwowego aparatu przymusu.
nie rzekomo a dosłownie popełniasz drugi raz ten sam błąd. Nie moja brocha. Z mojej strony EOT bo nie naprawiłeś błędu (który zaznaczyłem podgrubieniem)
i na co ty właściwie odpowiadasz? Podałem przykłady stolen concept fallacy (w tym twój stolen concept fallacy) bo mnie kurwa o to prosiłeś bym Ci wyjaśnił co to znaczy, a ty wziąłeś je na poważnie? xD
 
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RedRight

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Ponieważ stawiasz fałszywe tezy bez odwołania się do źródeł, zadałem sobie minimalny trud i wygooglowałem coś, co nie jest materiałem z tzw. dupy, który się posługujesz (a w zasadzie zmyślasz).


Quality of Life in the Soviet Union : A Conference Report z roku 1984

Tamże, na stronach 28 i dalej (podkreślenia będą moje):

As the data indicates, the Soviet Union has a long way to go to catch up with Western standards of living. In 1976, the living standard of the Soviet people was roughly one-third that of the United States, somewhat less than half that of France, West Germany and Austria, just over half that of the United Kingdom and Japan, and about two-thirds of the Italian level. These relationships remain essentially the same in the 1980s.

Large deficiencies are found in all major categories of Soviet consumption, except for education. With respect to food, beverages and tobacco, Soviet per capita consumption levels range from between 50 to 70% of the total for Western nations. Moreover, the quality of the Soviet diet is poor by Western standards. In 1976, for example, Soviet consumers obtained 46% of their daily caloric intake from bread and potatoes, and only 8% from meat and fish. The comparable figures for the United States are 22 and 20%, respectively. These statistics do not include expenditures in restaurants and cafes, which would make the Soviet position look somewhat less favorable because relatively fewer people in the Soviet Union frequent such establishments than in the United States.

Soviet per capita expenditures on clothing and footware are also well below Western levels, but the variability between nations is greater than the range for overall standards of living. Per capita consumption of clothing and footware ranges between 46 and 81% of the Western levels. However, both the Soviet press and foreign observers point out that the style, variety, and general appearance of Soviet attire is far inferior to the fashions available in the West. Unfortunately, such considerations cannot be fully captured by quantitative comparisons.

The area where the differences between Soviet and Western living standards is perhaps greatest is in the housing sector. Here, the Soviet Union spends less than one-fifth the total US figure, and well under half of what is spent in Spain and Japan. Housing is probably the greatest consumer frustration in the Soviet Union. Most urban residents pay very low subsidized rents, but live in small, overcrowded, poorly-maintained apartments. For the Soviet Union to appreciably reduce its housing problem, huge sustained increases in investment would be necessary--an occurance which does not seem likely given Soviet investment priorities.

Allocations for transportation and communication services are also very low in the Soviet Union as compared to Western levels. Soviet consumers spend large amounts on public transportation relative to the West and very small amounts on private automobiles. Presently, only about one Soviet family out of twenty owns a car, whereas car ownership is almost universal among American families and is overwhelmingly predominant in Western Europe and Japan. Only one in seven urban families in the Soviet Union has a telephone, and home telephones are exceedingly rare in rural areas. The availability of recreational goods and services is scarce in comparison to the West. According to Soviet data, over nine-tenths of all families now have television sets, with color sets coming into use fairly rapidly.

Soviet consumers also spend relatively much less than their Western couterparts on a variety of miscellaneous goods and services. The largest share of this category consists of expenditures in restaurants and lodging places which are far less common in the Soviet Union than in the West. While restaurant sales make up about one-sixth of total retail sales of food and beverages in the Soviet Union, the share is much larger in Western nations. The Soviet government's long-term neglect of the service sector has produced expenditure lags comparable to those for housing and recreation. The relatively large Western totals for "other expenditures" reflect the fact that a wide variety of financial, legal, and similar services are provided in the Nest, whereas they are extremely rare or non-existent in the Soviet Union.

Health care in the Soviet Union is provided at no direct charge to the individual, but the figures indicate that per capita expenditures on health care are only about one-third of those in the United States, France and West Germany, and about two-fifths the level of the United Kingdom, Austria and Japan. This is partially explained by the fact that the Soviet health care system is labor-intensive and uses fewer expensive materials than in the West. Moreover, Soviet health care personnel are among the lowest paid in the Soviet economy.

In sharp contrast to the poor showing in all areas up to this point, the Soviet Union leads all countries but the United States in per capita expenditures on education. This relects a long-standing commitment to create an educated and skilled labor force with which to fuel a rapidly expanding and modernizing economy. But while general secondary education is now compulsory and nearly universal, access to full-time higher educational facilities is strictly limited to the government's estimated need for trained manpower. Less than one-fifth of all Soviet high school graduates are enrolled in full-time colleges, compared to over two-fifths in the United States. About 10 % of the Soviet labor force is made up of college graduates, whereas the figure is approximately 25% in the United States.

Soviet consumption patterns differ markedly from those in the West . Soviet citizens devote a far larger share of their expenditures to food, clothing, alcoholic beverages and tobacco . With close to two-thirds of all consumption outlays devoted to these items, the Soviet Union displays a consumption pattern more similar to developing nations than industrialized ones. This follows from Engel's Law which holds that proportional outlays for food and clothing, etc ., decline as spendable income rises. As Soviet wages are relatively low compared to those in Western nations, the proportion of income spent on food, etc., is necessarily higher than in the West. In short, not only are relative standards of living far below those of the West, but the pattern of consumption is also quite backward and has changed at a glacial pace compared to the West. As the United States and other Western nations moved towards the creation of service-oriented economies, Soviet expenditures on production comprised almost 80% of all spending in 1976. In the United States, the respective share was 45%.

From 1953 to 1970, per capita, private consumption in the Soviet Union rose nearly twice as fast as in the United States, but since 1970 that growth has slowed markedly. Starting from a much lower base, Soviet efforts to reduce the gap between Eastern and Western standards of living have been mixed. Soviet living standards have indeed increased, but on the whole, the result has not been particularly impressive in comparison to the capitalist nations of Western Europe. Western estimates are virtually unanimous in their forecasts of slow economic growth in the Soviet Union and therefore even slower growth rates in per capita consumption levels.

I pozamiatane.
Zakłamany tekst. Po pierwsze miesza zakumulowaną konsumpcję z bieżącą konsumpcją. która była znaczna dopiero od lat 70. Dalej całe mnóstwo kłamstw. Nie mam wszystkich danych, poprawię tym, co wiem. Całkowita konsumpcja wynosiła ponad 100% poziomu USA, żywności wynosiła grubo ponad 140% Mieli np. więcej warzyw, produktow mlecznych i cukru.

ZSRR produkował o wiele wiecej ubrań i butów, które były jakosciowo lepsze. W latach 70. budowali 25% więcej mieszkań i domów. Mniejszych, ale nie z drewna i karton gipsu. Zapewniono ogólnie normalne warunki, ale jak mówiłem tekst przekłamuje odwołujac się do konsumpcji zakumulowanej zamiast bieżącej. Transport publiczny plus spacer plus brak konieczności prowadzenia samochcou, brak korkow i brak wypadków bije na głowe model amerykański.

Obywatele radzieccy mniej czasu spędali w kolejkach w sklepach.

Radziecka slużba zdrowia była po prostu lepsza. Możliwe, ze słynny amerykański styl życia był patologiczny i prowadził do ogromnych kosztów leczenia.

Widać, że w socjalizmie nie ma klopotów z niepotrzebnymi absolwentami.

Radziecka konsumpcja skladała sie także z dóbr wyższego rzędu, tyle, że były opłacane przez panstwo: mieszkania, transport, wakacje. Władze zadbały w pierwszej kolejności o zaspokojenie wszystkich dóbr podstawowych: jedzenie, ubrania itd., w wielkości skrajnie przewyższającej USA, a potem inne dobra ze wzgledu na ich autentyczną potrzebę, a nie manipulacje reklamami.
 
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nie rzekomo a dosłownie popełniasz drugi raz ten sam błąd. Nie moja brocha. Z mojej strony EOT bo nie naprawiłeś błędu (który zaznaczyłem podgrubieniem)
i na co ty właściwie odpowiadasz? Podałem przykłady stolen concept fallacy (w tym twój stolen concept fallacy) bo mnie kurwa o to prosiłeś bym Ci wyjaśnił co to znaczy, a ty wziąłeś je na poważnie? xD
No i błędu nie wykazałeś. Pokazałem ci ile warte są twoje porównania. I wykorzystałem do zaatakowania liberalizmu, bo to liberałowie stosują je do napaści na socjalistów.
 

kompowiec

freetard
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No i błędu nie wykazałeś. Pokazałem ci ile warte są twoje porównania.
Wykazałem, fakt że tego nie widzisz nie mój problem. I to nie są porównania, tylko przykłady tego błędu, który popełniłeś. Niczego też nie zaatakowałeś tylko udowodniłeś że nie rozumiesz tego błędu.
 

kompowiec

freetard
2 587
2 650
W intencji autora były porównaniami. To wiedza ze szkoły podstawowej.
Dosłowne stolen concept fallacy to żądanie prawdy o czymś, co jednocześnie próbujesz obalić. Tu nie ma żadnej intencji ani tym bardziej porównania. Czysta logika. Wiesz że teraz kłamiesz. Dosłownie tłumaczenie stolen concept fallacy to błąd skradzionej koncepcji. Jak śmiesz w ogóle porównywać skradzione ze sobą koncepty, sprzeczne ze sobą?

Popełniłeś błąd a teraz nie chcesz się do niego przyznać. Jesteś zwykłym tchórzem.

Teraz oprócz stolen concept fallacy popełniasz sunk cost fallacy w tym momencie. Nie pogrążaj się.
 
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Life expectancy in the USSR in 1975 was 70.4 years (up from 68.4 years in 1960 and 70.0 in 1970).

Life expectancy in the US in 1975 was eight months longer than in the Soviet Union. Contrary to Eberstadt, life expectancy in the USSR is not the lowest in Europe, nor is it comparable to those of the less developed capitalist countries in Latin America. In 1975, Soviet life expectancy was higher than that of Finland, Portugal, Yugoslavia, Romania, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and “half-civilized” Albania. The USSR was further considerably ahead of the major Latin American countries such as Mexico (64.7), Chile (62.6), Brazil (61.4), and Argentina (68.2). It should be noted that the Soviet overall life expectancy is only slightly lower than that of the major advanced capitalist countries such as the United Kingdom (72.4), Japan (72.9), and West Germany (71.3). In 1900, the average newborn Russian could expect to live for about thirty years (seventeen years less than a newborn in the US born at the same time) (Eberstadt, p. 23). In a little more than a single generation, the Soviet system was able to take a population which had been living in medieval conditions and bring it up to roughly Western European standards of nutrition and health care.

Długość życia nie jest doskonałym miernikiem poziomu życia, ale posiadane dane wystarczają, aby konsumpcję(włączajac konsumpcję usług medycznych) zaliczyć do najwyższego światowego poziomu.
 

workingclass

Well-Known Member
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Znajdziesz dane na Wikipedii.

Zbyt dużo by było cytowania, nie pamiętam wszystkich źródeł, a część obliczeń wykonałem samodzielnie.
Kto napisał te kłamliwe liczby. Dalej, Chiny można od razu odrzucić razem z Pol Potem, to byli lewacy-ludobójcy.

Zostaje 7,7 mln ofiar w ZSRR i paręset tysięcy poza granicami. W sumie 8 mln ofiar stalinizmu. Porównajmy to raz jeszcze z 80 mln ofiar liberalnych kapitalistów i 32 mln ofiar faszystowskich kapitalistów.
No niestety, jak nie wstawiasz źródeł i odsyłasz do wikipedii to tak jest.

Twoje samodzielne obliczenia bez podawania ich podstaw to możesz sobie w dupę wsadzić.

Do tego napisałeś w pierwszym wpisie, że dowiem się czegoś ciekawego a jeszcze poza twoimi komuszymi wyssanym z dupy fantazjemi nic ciekawek napisanego przez ciebie nie przeczytałem.
 
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RedRight

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No niestety, jak nie wstawiasz źródeł i odsyłasz do wikipedii to tak jest.

Twoje samodzielne obliczenia bez podawania ich podstaw to możesz sobie w dupę wsadzić.
Problem polega na tym, że nie chcę ujawniać mojej metody. Podstawy do moich obliczeń znalazłem np. w danych CIA, potwierdza to moja papierowa encyklopedia z PRL.
 
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